Posted by SunDevil4Life on April 02, 20 at 00:34:50:
In Reply to: ASU's Top 10 quarterbacks since 1970, imo posted by Sun Devil P.A.T. on April 01, 20 at 16:23:12:
I think it is an awesome question. So many variables to analyze, imo, besides just stats, W/L record, etc.
For instance, Taylor Kelley was a fantastic leader and a winner. He fit the "system" really well, and he was a pretty mistake free QB (except for overthrows and under-throws on the long ball). He was fantastic on the back shoulder throws. BUT... was he an exceptional QB ??, or did he just do a great job of fitting into the system he was in, and benefited from a fairly stout defense as well ?
Another thought I had was... in analyzing pure QB talent, is it fair to consider a QB's talent, and impact on the team, while also considering the defense he had supporting him when he didn't have the ball in his hands? Could some of these QB's had much better rear view mirror respect if they had the supporting cast that other QB's had ?
For instance, I think Rudy Carpenter was one of the toughest, smartest (yes, smartest), versatile and most talented QB's we ever had. Not to mention, the guy played EXTREMELY injured much of his career, injuries that haunt him today and make simple running a challenge. ADDITIONALLY, and can't remember the exact numbers, but he was sacked like 50-55 times in EACH of his last 2 years. And Rudy could move, he was pretty darn mobile, but his P=lines quit frankly sucked. I remember him getting booed off the field a couple times and was thinking, how much more can this kid give? Typical uneducated fans not knowing the game, not knowing situational football, personnel, etc. On top of that, it wasn't like he had an all world defense on the other side of the ball either.
Ok, with my Rudy example out there, curious what you think about this "Best QB List" in light of other factors around that QB. For example, what if Rudy had the '96 Rose Bowl defense when he played ? Would he have gone down and would we analyze him as one of ASU's best QB's ever? I don't know the answer, just asking the question. And then visa-versa.... what if Jake Plumber played with Todd Grahams defense in Graham's last 2 years (one of the WORST defenses in the entire country). As a pure analysis of QB's, would Plummer have gone down in ASU lore with those crappy defenses, and a different W/L record than he attained ? Just interesting pondering the question.
I think Ryan Kealy was one of more electric and talented QB's for sure. He was extremely "Jake-ish". But his injuries, and sometimes his temper and emotions, limited his ultimate ability. He was a combo of Jake and Rudy, IMO. Super fun to watch.
Mike Pagel was amazing too. Granted, not the overwhelming stats, but he had a canon of an arm, could make the throws, and was smart. He was a coach's kid, and had an incredibly talented family/brothers. AND, let's remember, Mike had a 12 year NFL career, primarily as a back-up, but you are not chump change to last in the NFL that long.
Anyways, don't want to make this too long, but kind of thought it might be worthy of asking, "what if this QB had a better surrounding cast while he played, OR, what if this QB didn't have such an amazing O-Line or shut-down defense on the other side, ultimatey making his QB job much easier (as in maybe Jeff Van Raphorst ?)
Just asking the question and curious what ya'll think ?
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